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By Harem Karem:
Falah Mustafa Bakir,KRG foreign minster
In an article, entitled ‘Justice for Iraqi Kurds’, published on the Huffington Post on 2 July, the Kurdistan Regional Government’s (KRG) foreign minister began with a familiar phrase, ‘Kurdistan is booming’, so often used by short-sighted foreign businessmen – followed by a barrage of colourful words. But the minister misleads readers because this so-called booming market is controlled by a bunch of money-munching monsters among the oligarchs while ordinary people struggle to make ends meet.
The minister recounts the atrocities and crimes against humanity that were committed by the Ba’athist regime – the people who were displaced, the widows and the families still missing. But he fails to tell readers about the crimes committed by the current KRG leadership against the very same people he is shedding crocodile tears for. Some 36,000 good, honest men were killed during the 1990s as result of the current KRG leadership’s shameful civil war. The fate of hundreds, if not thousands, in their secret prisons is still unknown. His Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) forged a shameful alliance with Saddam Hussein and invited the Ba’athist army onto Kurdistan soil to confront the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan’s (PUK) militia on 31 August 1996 – the very same PUK that the KDP is now in coalition government with.
The reality: A child sells petrol in 40-degrees heat in the Kurdistan Region (June 2012)
The minister also omits to mention the the displacement of thousands of families in Slemani and Hawler provinces during his party’s shameful civil war, simply for being affiliated with either the KDP or PUK. The hundreds of thousands of Kurds who emigrated to Western countries to escape his party’s civil war are now deprived of their Kurdish citizenship. Not only restricted from exercising their fundamental rights to participate in elections, they are also not entitled to the KRG-Scholarship program and, when visiting their beloved homeland, they have to get a visa.
While the minister talks about villages and towns destroyed by the former regime, one would like to ask: How many more villages and towns have your party destroyed since it assumed power in 1991? Do any of the following names ring a bell? Hawraman, Sharazur, Penjwen, Koye, Pishder, Haji Omeran, Qalachwalan, Sharbajer, Dukan, Chamchamal etc…
The Tea-House your party has set up in London to represent the KRG is full of embarrassing unprofessional buffoons, only representing KDP loyalists and the disingenuous British businessmen (that you call politicians) who have sided with a bunch of corrupt civil warlords in Kurdistan and are deaf and blind when the oligarchs kill innocent people and harbour murderers, abuse human rights, imprison and torture journalists. These so-called UK representatives are more interested in their personal financial gains and property developments in Kurdistan than in Anfal victims, regardless of the wishes of their constituents.
When we launched the independent e-petition campaign on 15 August 2011, your buffoons in London refused to have anything to do with it, directly or indirectly, simply because it was independent and your party could not make it its own achievement. On the other hand, we did not have money to pay for your parliamentary businessmen’s club.
To put it in context, as you put it, how about if we set up an e-petition to bring most members of the current KRG leadership to the international court to be tried for crimes against humanity? Rest assured that the nation will come to terms with the horror they have endured at the hands of your party.
Copyright © 2012 Kurdistantribune.com
Respond to Kak Falah Mustafa’s “Kurdistan is booming”
Kurdistan is booming for whom? Iran was booming for Shah and his servants most of them die in exile. Today Kurdistan is ruled by Massoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani with iron fist. Both families are supported by Israeli Governments against Kurdish people; incidentally Shah of Iran was supported by Israeli Governments against Iranian people too.
Massoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani are not much different than Saddam Hussein of Iraq.
The US, EU and Israel supported Saddam Hussein to defeat Islamic Republic of Iran. Today the US, EU and Israel are supporting Massoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani’s corrupt Governments because of Iran conflict.
After Iran conflict is over then Shah Massoud Barzani and Shah Jalal Talabani with people around them will be homeless in the world because Kurdish people will revolt sooner or later like Iranian people did in 1979.
Shah Massoud Barzani and Shah Jalal Talabani will die in exile just like Shah of Iran die as homeless.
One by one dictators of Middle East are going down.
We Kurds will be free at last sooner or later.
Kurdistan is booming for corrupt people like Barzani and Talabani family members and associate servants’ around them. Kurdistan is not booming for Kurdish people.
Hamma Mirwaisi
Author of the, “Return of the Medes”
and “An Atomic Iran” books.
Well put kak Harem, the truth hurts and only honest and brave people can deal with it. There is a simple truth in life that very few people realize, especially those who are high on power, despite historical and recent events, “who lives by the sword will fall by the sword” I just hope our lot can get it, sooner rather than later, and spare our people another calamity!?.
Harem Karem
I hope to see you becoming a minister someday in S. Kurdistan. Your knowledge is way more them most of the ministers and parliamentarians. Kurdistan necessitates such active, astute and patriot youths.
Wish you best of lucks in your academic/political Career.
Reagards
A Fellow-citizen
Who is Falah Mustfa ? This is an honest question !
Iraqi Kurdistan is enjoying lots of growth and at a fast rate, but the reality is that it could grow even faster and better if the corrupted hands are taken off. Imagine how many more highways, hospitals, and public institutions could’ve been built and established with all the money stolen by thousands of current officials and invested in offshore accounts. Just imagine selling all the current mansions owned by the current leaders and investing it in public service?
KRG likes to give itself credit for this growth, but in all honesty, it is mostly private sector-driven growth. It is individuals who run this economy, which is good and bad at the same time. But even in this privately-driven economy, the corrupted leaders still won’t leave people alone. Try and build a new hospital or factor and see if you can make it happen without a Barzani or Talabani hand deep in your pocket. Disgusting.
The devil himself can become beauty, so we are told, to corrupt mankind.
Why do you involve Israel, USA and EU in the corruption going on in Kurdistan!!! those countries have nothing to do with that, you can`t expect well developed countries like Israel, USA and Europe to be part of those disgusting practices. Kurdish leaders are rather allied with corrupt countries and doing most of their illegal buisness with corrupt countries like Turkey, Iran, Lebanon.
Thank you very much for all your comments. Always read them with interest and learn from them.
Dr Hawramany,
What makes you think corruption does t happen in Israel, USA, and Europe? You are obviously either misguided or biased.
To Dr.N.Hawramany
There are many ex-official from The US, EU and Israel working with Barzani and Talabani families in the corruption schemes. Some of them become partner of Barzani and Talabani while worked for the Government of the US, EU and Israel.
Dr. Michael Rubin wrote many times about that.
Barzani and Talabani Sheik’s are there with the help from the US, EU and Israeli Governments. These Governments are aware that both families are abusing Kurdish people but they do not object because of the influence of those corrupt partners from the US, EU and Israel.
You wrote that “Kurdish leaders are rather allied with corrupt countries and doing most of their illegal business with corrupt countries like Turkey, Iran, Lebanon”
It is true but those countries you wrote do not have enough power to keep Barzani and Talabani Sheiks as the ruler of Kurdistan, only the US and Israeli Governments does.
Dr. Michael Rubin knows what he is writing about, he was once involved in policy making about the region.
If enough Kurdish writers, write about unjust practice by the US and Israeli Government for supporting corrupt Barzani and Talabani in Kurdistan. Then the US and Israeli Government will stop supporting them. And then the Kurdish people will be able to arrest Barzani and Talabani family members. Kurdistan court of laws can punish them for corruption and murders too.
I think neither Israel nor Iran can be trusted. Both have had a long history of bad practices and deception. When will our Kurds stop being so lame and naive.
I could not agree more with Mr Mirwaisi . One day the so called leaders will be dragged to court of law and receive a just sentences on all the criminality they have been involved in . Curses of the poors and disadvantaged whom they made poorer , those who lost their lives , those lost part of their bodies , those who spent their lives in prisons and those who immigrated and displaced , will follow them . No one should be disillusioned with cash flash they are spraying here and there. keep up the good work .
This is a grossly over-simplified and vitriolic attack on an individual that, for all of his faults, has dedicated his life to the cause of Kurdistan.
Being a Westerner, and having lived in Kurdistan for several years now, it never ceases to amaze me how little credit is given to this government for the tremendous accomplishments that it has made by those who criticize it.
There is no doubt a great deal of corruption here, and seeing it disgusts me just as much as it does the next guy. However, the way to fight this is not to discredit oneself by publishing hate speech as though it is a legitimate counter-view on how to address the innumerable challenges that face this government.
The opposition here is being led by a guy who was an intimate confidant and member of the senior management for more than 20 years–and he is joined by some way out there religious elitists. How serious do you think they really are about giving you the free and democratic Kurdistan that you want? How able do you think they are to deliver this if/when they take over power?
The opposition has yet to even begin thinking about what an opposition can and should do best in any government, that is keep the government accountable and come up with reasonable alternatives to the way that things are being done. So far, they have been content with slinging mud, criticism, and going on destructive rampages to show their discontent.
May I suggest that it is much easier to destroy a government than it is to build one. Why not start with the incredible progress that has already been made? Why not engage the government and the international community in trying to make things better.
As a people, the Kurds have been kicked around and denied freedom and individual rights for centuries. However, one of the biggest reasons that this has been possible is because you all allow yourselves to get so caught up in tearing each other down that you can’t really ever keep anything together.
It’s great to raise legitimate concerns that should be addressed, but get out of the mindset that any government can be perfect. Stop demanding that the government supply the needs of the entire population. And ask yourselves if your efforts are genuinely helping to resolve the problems that exist, or are they just making them worse?
We Kurds dealing with blind, deaf and Arrogant Leaders
To Friend of Kurdistan
Massoud Barzani wants to build Kingdom of Barzan with help of Turkey and Israel. Jalal Talabani wants to build kingdom of Talaban with help of Iran and Israel.
We Kurds had Kingdom of Bani-Erdalan, Baban, Baderxan and others for thousands of years. Every time we have Governments like KRG, that Governments are forcing us Kurds to ask Iran, Turks and Arabs to be free from Governments like KRG.
We are asking for true democratic system and rule of laws, but Massoud Barzani and Jalal Talabani are not listening to us Kurds.
You wrote
“As a people, the Kurds have been kicked around and denied freedom and individual rights for centuries. However, one of the biggest reasons that this has been possible is because you all allow yourselves to get so caught up in tearing each other down that you can’t really ever keep anything together”.
We do understand that. Iraq under Saddam Hussein was impossible for US to overthrow, we all worked hard to bring him the US Forces to defeat him and his family.
We are facing such outcome with Barzani and Talabani, we all working hard to bring any forces in the world to defeat them and their families aggression.
Histories of Kurds are repeating; do not blame us for the outcome. Please hold Barzani and Talabani dictatorship for the outcome.
Please read my article in this publication for farther explanation.
Is Nawshirwan Mustafa full of anger?
I want to thank you for your advice, oh friend of Kurds and Kurdistan.
We been crying in private for last twenty years without answer !!!
It is not true that USA, Europe or Israel has anything to do with power grab of dominant parties KDP and PUK, let us not be like the Arab media which blames their own miscchieves on Israel and USA. I am not endorsing USA or Israel, these countries work for their own national interests.Mr Barzani and Mr Talabani are in powersharing Government in Kurdistan province since 2003 because they have won the local elections and it`s true that they have achieved some progress in certain aspects which is mainly due to the huge increase in the budghet allocated to Kurdistan regional government by government of Iraq, despite the wide spread corruption and embezzelment of public funds by those two political forces.Any change should come through the ballot box.The opposition parties are also getting monthly generous subventions from Kurdish government, so they lie under the mercy of the governing KDP and PUK parties.That there are many Americans, Europeans who are involved in those dubious and lucrative oil contracts, which plunder the wealth of Kurdistan for the sole benefit of Barzani and Talabani and their families is not a secret any more.
Friend of Kurdistan ,
I appreciate your enthusiasm but usually foreigners who are residing in Kurdistan currently do so with blessings from the KRG and in most cases there is mutual financial or politIcal relationship between the foreign ‘friends’ and a local government agency or official. Therefore I would take your words with a grain of salt. You wouldn’t be in Kurdistan now unless you are on a good financial contract, carry foreign political agendas, or carry religious agendas. It’s one if the above three and so in all of those cases, a foreigner nowadays can’t enjoy comfortable movement in Kurdistan if they are against the KRG. Once those gains, ties and agreements no longer exist, you would see KRG going against the foreigners or the other way around. Just ask Michael Rubin.
So don’t think firbavsecond that the educated and enlightened Kurds of Kurdistan are not aware of the hidden plans of Israel and the West, including the Christian missionaries, taking advantage of the lack of order to dig their roots deep into Kurdistan, and eventually drag Kurds into regional conflicts such as the one between Israel and Turkey. Kurds of Kurdistsn are better off without outside intervention and I am sorry if these words are harsh but we have been betrayed by the Brutish and in the last 20 years USA has never made any open aggressive efforts to assist Kurds in fainting independence.
So when you enjoy a comfortable life in Kurdistan with constant electricity and freedom to travel back and forth if course you won’t understand the pains of those who have no jobs no electricity and no freedom to public ally speak up. If you think KRG is so goud, I challenge you to reveal your identity and write publIcally criticizing the officials. Hiding behind a screen name means you don’t feel enough freedom to talk.
Hamma Mirwaisi,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am well aware of the desire for true democracy and rule of law that a large degree of your people have, and it is a very encouraging reality. However, as has already been said, the US, UK, Europe, Turkey, Iran and every other country that has anything to do with Iraq and/or Kurdistan is only involved with them for one thing–their state interests.
You can demonize this and talk about how terrible it is, but the simple fact of the matter is the only interest that Kurds have in the outside world is based on their interests too. This is a simple reality; it is part of the inherent nature of politics, international relations and human nature itself.
This is not a good or bad thing in the moral sense. It is simply true. Sometimes it is good for everyone involved, sometimes bad, and sometimes good for some and bad for others.
States and governments generally function as unfeeling, unemotional institutions whose sole purpose is to serve the interests of their own people. There are exceptions to this rule (Resolution 688 and Operation Provide Comfort), but they are costly and therefore they are not sustainable as a long term or general official policy.
Therefore it is unwise to ever bank on a foreign state to follow through on its promises (especially a western power that has a 4-6 year government turnover based on legitimate public elections). Rather, it is better to observe what a given state’s interests may be and try to align one’s own interests with them.
For all of the corruption and nepotism that exists here, the simple reality is that your leaders do recognize this reality. This is why they have worked so hard to help promote foreign investment in Kurdistan. Because if foreign powers have a vested financial interest here, then they will be much more likely to offer their political assistance as well.
In spite of the unbelievably strong sense of Kurdish nationalism that exists here, the simple fact is that till now an independent Kurdish state could not possibly survive. You are landlocked, surrounded by enemies with a vested interest in undermining your efforts, internally divided, and you have no financial leg to stand on.
Your leaders are almost certainly skimming a fair amount off of the top as your situation improves, but don’t kid yourselves about how much they have been able to accomplish. There has been a tremendous amount of interest generated amongst foreign investors over the past few years, and as your influence in Baghdad has waned, so has the interests of Turkey dramatically grown.
Kurdistan will not be a fully autonomous country for a very long time. It could happen, but you will have to fully develop your own financial base and convince a large portion of the international community that you can survive the pressure and perhaps invasion of Baghdad and your neighbors before they will even consider recognizing you. No existing state is going to jump at the opportunity to recognize a state that is going to cost them a massive amount of prestige, treasure and military muscle to defend.
I commend you for believing in individual rights, freedom and democracy, but establishing a functioning government under this model was even a tremendously challenging feat for the US where the conditions were infinitely more favorable than they are here.
I am not defending your leaders because I like my pay here–frankly, I could do much better and live in far better comfort in my own country of origin. In fact, I am not defending your leaders at all, I am simply encouraging you to utilize your considerable energy and influence in ways that would be more practical in helping to achieve the goals that you say your have.
You don’t have to entirely discredit your leaders in order to reveal their nepotism and the corruption that exists. You don’t have to present them as being hopeless “buffoons” in order to discuss alternative policies and/or methods that you think would be vastly superior to those that you see them using.
As a foreigner, I do not have any right to tell you what to do with your country. However, as a friend, I can see that your history of divisiveness and consequent weakness is threatening to repeat itself. You have a remarkable number of individual liberties. While attacks on journalistic freedom continue to happen, journalists often respond with unsubstantiated personal attacks on your leaders.
Your reports and efforts would be far more credible if you took a less emotional and more factual and reasonable approach. Ask yourself what your real goals are, if they are to destroy the government that you have, then you’re on the right track. But, if you truly want to see an independent Kurdistan, then you’re current government is probably the best shot that you are going to have at that for a very long time. This doesn’t mean that you can’t force dramatic improvements in your government, but it does mean that you would have to back off of the emotional attacks and step up the factual and reasonable arguments for better policies.
Burhan & Serwan,
Your personal attacks on me and efforts to destroy my credibility are exactly the mentality that will ensure you will never rise above the tragic history that your people have suffered.
You are right in assuming that my standard of living is worlds above that of the average person here in Kurdistan, and you are right in assuming that I have reasons to protect my identity, but are these really legitimate reasons to disregard the points that I have made? Am I unfeeling or some kind of monster because I live better than those around me?
The simple fact of the matter is that I have given up much in the way of personal comfort and convenience in order to live here. I actually am one of the rare individuals who believe that values are worth more than wealth or personal interest. Believe it or not, your litter filled wasteland of dust, poor roads, terrible public services, unbearable heat, etc does not have a great deal of natural appeal to me. And, I don’t like having to see the extreme and hopeless poverty of my fellow human beings whenever I could just go home and forget that their condition even exists.
However, I’m curious at your self righteous condemnation of me. Who are you? Are you one of these poor individuals who has never benefited from anything or anyone? Or, are you one of the privileged who grew up in a wealthy and/or well connected family, who had access to better than average schools, who has access to constant or nearly constant power, and who has enough excess wealth to allow you to own a computer and have the free time to sit and read things on the internet? Come to think of it, how did you learn to speak/write English so well?
We don’t choose the lives that we’re given, but we do choose what we do with them. I try to be a force for good with the immense privilege that I have been blessed with; what do you do?
BTW, one more addition to the list of things that I do not find particularly appealing here:
After nearly three years, the vast majority of the Kurds that I have met vastly over-estimate their abilities. The number one complaint that I hear from all of my colleagues from international businesses and institutions is that the locals they try to hire are buy-in-large lazy and completely untrainable because they’re too proud to admit their faults and weaknesses. This is not entirely unlike the picture that I get of your leadership, and it is a big part of the reason that I have no faith in your situation being improved just because you succeed in replacing your current leaders.
BTW, I don’t think Nausherwan is angry, but I do think that he is an opportunist.
There will always be people, local and foreign, who enjoy personal gains and benefits from corrupt governments and therefore defend the status quo. I wouldn’t call them true friends of my country.
friend of Kurdistan
(( The opposition here is being led by a guy who was an intimate confidant and member of the senior management for more than 20 years–and he is joined by some way out there religious elitists. How serious do you think they really are about giving you the free and democratic Kurdistan that you want? How able do you think they are to deliver this if/when they take over power? ))
In democracies the rule of thumb is that parties who win people votes go to the office .
Problem with kurdistan is not only there is no democracy but no government .
KRG is invention of Jalal and MAsood to keep their 50 50 agreemnt and you know the rest . Kurdistan is run by two families in a mafia style . They have their own militia police and secrete services , a copy of saddam regime .
Do you give this any credits ? I hope not .
Granting all of those points, what are you going to replace them with?
They are not Saddam (not yet), they are at least giving lip service to promoting democratic values; hold them to it.
Consider improving your position in the long game and stop demanding perfection in the moment.
Friend of Kurdistan
So is it perfection to ask for simple things in life. No immortal leaders , no immortal cemeteries , no immortal families no 50/50 no families owned militia no party owned secrete services no two governments in two cities . Is this perfection or the guys are blinded in heart.
We have not achieved what we see today by Masood and sons and Jalal and sons struggle sacrifice and leadership . But it is rather due to hundreds of americans live lost in our land . When americans solders died they were told you are dying to spread values of free world in Iraq. Not to create criminal mafias thuggery’s and theives who have lost their humanity and blinded in hearts .
It is our very duty to keep raising this issue and campaign for it inside and outside kurdistan . We should try and issue arrest warrant , akin to that of assad regime , for particularly Barazani and Talabnis inner circles. This will happen but just need time effort and patience .
These guy have stolen our present and our kids future . Act now or get curse of the future generations.
Believe me , one day you will see Masood Masroor Mansoor babe , Nicher , Idris the second , Sidad , Adham and i can continue a long list of illiterates turned immortals , you will see them on the Tele in front of court of people to receive a just sentence for all their criminality .
Long live kurdistan , down with criminals thieves and thugs .
Friend if Kurdistsn.
You still didn’t tell us why you are in Kurdistan. If you are giving up great pay elsewhere then can I ask you if you are s missionary? And there is nothing wrong with that, but just don’t say you are in Kurdistdn just because you woke up one day and wanted to be there.
Regarding myself, yes I come from a poor family that rarely saw running water for all my childhood. I have endured more in my youth that you could face in your lifetime so who are YOU to judge. I have had to earn everything I have now.
You lose all credibility when you advOcate maintaining the status quo simply because you like the current corrupt leaders or basically terrified that any change would lead to different grouPs taking over, as happened in Egypt and Tunisia, and I am assuming that would not set very well with your beliefs and agendas. You are a guest in Kurdistan but you have way more rights than an actual regular Kyrdish citizen enjoys under the current KRG. Bottom line is you try to hide your real intentions and motives and quite honestly we kurds don’t like foreign intervention, not American n
BTW friend of Kurdistan I wanted to stress out that we Kurds don’t like any foreign intervention not American not Israeli not Egyptian and not Iranian. You simply are in Kurdistan carrying either personal political or religious agendas. Enjoy your stay and go what you are doing but don’t sit and judge our life from your limited perspective.
It is usually the practice of dictators and their surrogates to say: hey things are bad, the current leaders are bad, but who are you going to replace them with? or: what guarantees you that replacement would be better. This is a pathetic attempt from leaders and their surrounding to prevent change. Give people chance to make change and then you can determine if their replacement is better or not. Isn’t it sad that some Iraqi Kurds are so sick and tired with the current corruption that they say Saddam was better. I hope friend of Kurdistan gets to read this and thinks about it. With all my due respect for a friend of Kurdistan.
To Friend of Kurdistan
I truly believe from the bottom of my heart that you’re genuine faithful friend of Kurdistan. I completely agree with points you made. I also agree that we are largely spoon fed and no one is ready to provide some pesonal sacrifices for the sake of public good. Everyone try to cease any opportunity to access some personal again.
I also believe however, this mentality and selfishness of current generation grew from current unjust, inequality and unfairness that our society see and taste from unfaithfull corrupt official. The member of public see that our directors of public institutions, junior politions and governmental officials, ministers …etc have unlimited access to illegitimate (public) money, convoy of expensive cars, their frequent foreign travel,..etc. they travel outside for medical care on public expenses and poor people have to face the hardship of yet again the corrupt doctors. Doctors suppose to be the most trusted profession, however, yet again it’s not true in my country. I am as a doctor see the the bad practice that doctors (without exception) are engaged in Kurdistan day in day out. I completely lost faith in this profession in this country. If one try to do his best for the patients best interest will no doubt face a very painful- well-build brick wall.
I agree with you we should shut up, stop complaining, start doing our best for good of all rather only aiming for personal again. We should stop sitting, doing nothing, but talking about corrupt officials. We should start building our country and everyone have to be faithful and do his/her best. We should ask ourself what can I offer our country not what our country offers me
I fully agree with you that you are in Kurdistan not because you have been seduced by unbelievable salary. You might get only $3000-5000 more from what you get from home country at best. For this little extra you have to endure all the hardship you mentioned, litter, terrible and unsafe roads, blazing heat..etc
Thank you taking time to express you opinion, sharing you thoughts, reading those articles and visiting this site (I am not proving it, I visited this site only 5 days ago). To this indicate your interest in Kurdistan rather in its business.
Reply
Can I make an other, probably unrelated point please
Someone some where in comments above mentioned missionaries…
Do you think European church funded charitable organization to come to Kurdistan to convert Muslims to chrischianity? Of course not, do you think they spent slot of money and effort to covert 3 kurds to chrischianity in 5 years! Such a waste of time and effort.
If there is any (might a handful) such charities; they fund disadvantaged, disabilled, autistic, orphans…etc.
my upbringing ( am sure yours) was coulded by fear, terroir and horror of senses of hell painted by illiterate mulls on Friday prayers preaches. Any mistake, like a major sin of converting, means your blood will be hala, you death is a worship, and an angel will stick hot bars in his back side in the day of judgment (hell).
I believe in God, but not in any other man made myths.
Can someone explain why port is haram. I never eat it because am psychologically tromatised and fearfull of someone to stick hot bar in my….. In hell.
I went to Germany for a conference, they served port and vegetarian in all 3 days. When I asked by not lamb or beef, they said because pork is cheaper.
They all eat pork, yet they are much more beautiful, healthier and more intellectual than us.
If you won’t to mention because tape worm, this disease is almost unheard of amongst indigenous European pork eaters. I guess an immigrant from Kenya or India might have a disease.
If that is a reason why be not ban goat because of brucellosis? Which is pandemic in Kurdistan, everyone get countless of doggy injections for brucellosis in Kurdistan by doctors bribed by countless of doggy pharmaceutical companies.
Sorry to derail the argument from politics and corruption, you mit say Ahmed has clearly thought disorder ..etc!
So please do not mention “missionaries” like our illiterate mulls whom no one can challenge them with my critical question casting a doubts on their evidence-free myths
Aha
Kaka Serwan, this time I spotted you.
“Religious agenda”, what agenda kak serwan?, to convert me or you to roman catholic or orthodox?
Our people remember straight away the eternal process of someone sticking a very hot bar…..in backside in ”judgement day”, so no one covert my brother. They are not so stupid to wast their time. They can make their time much more useful and effective in Athenes, Berlin or Lisbon.. They not gonna waste their time in our country
Reply
Ahmed,
you think the christian missionaries are not there to conver people to christianity? Then have you heard of the tragic incident of the American teacher in Suleimaniya who was shot by his teenager student, who in turn killed himself too. Have you read about that case, and what the teacher’s parents have said regardin the teacher’s only reason being in Kurdistan to bring the Kurds to the true word of God. Please visit the following link just as an example:
http://www.theinvestigativefund.org/investigations/1357/american_evangelicals_in_kurdistan/
Now our friend of Kurdistan is yet to come out and deny that he is a missionary. Anyways, the Kurds of Kurdistan have always gotten along with each other, Muslims, Christians, and even Jews. I never ever remember my parents telling me not to hang out with our many Christian neighbors. I also don’t think it is wrong for someone to spread their religion, but to hide and seek and to lie about things is hypocritical. I also think it is wrong to take advantage of the poor and ignorant people to convert them to another religion, whatever religion it is. Kak Ahmed, you can’t be so superficial and naive thinking everyone that touches a foot on Kurdistan soil is so sincere and is just there because they want to be there.
I am still waiting for friend of Kurdistan to come up and basically state he/she is in Kurdistan just because they LOVE to be there.
Recently one of my relatives who lives in Nashville, which houses the largest Kurdish population in the US, sent me a link to a report published by the Tennessean (local Nashville newspaper) about a secret report that was leaked from a council of christian missionaries. In this report, a full plan of more than 10 years was revealed, in which they clearly specifically declared their intention to slowly convert the Kurds to christianity, using every possible method. They had been using popular christian figures from refugee organizations who had been assisting refugees for years. As soon as this report came out, and those personnel were exposed, no Kurd has ever seen them again. The report also mentioned detailed agendas to send missionary groups to Kurdistan to slowly convert people to christianity. Anyone interested in this can just look it up or contact their friends in Nashville to verify.
Firstly sorry for typos in my comment.
Kaka Sami
Friend of Kurdistan admitted That he or she in Kurdistan for a job/ business, but he/she would like to see our people and nation to move forward. That what I sensed.
Yes, of course I’ve heard to what happened in sulamini. There is no evidence that he was in missionary task. If he mentioned Jesus once or twice, what is wrong with that. I like our pupil to have a broad range knowledge rather just reciting Abu huraira’s version of what prophet said without being able to critically question the teacher.
Even if he tried to do so, I am sure this was individual action of slughtered US teacher rather than implementing secret CIA polt to wipe out our fantastic culture. CIA has much more important jobs to do.
Some people can have schizophrenia and hear voices thinking Jesus order them to do something…etc!
Patriotic kurd
Looks likely this group of Tennesseean were heavly drunk with Jack Daniel.
They will be better off to convert atheist from phenox, Dalas, or San Diago; why poor people of Kurdistan. I think they need someone to draw a more strategic plan for them. This is a very important secret document by the way!
10 years; very ambitios plan to me!. Did the document states targeting Kurds of south or all kurdistan?
Probably this is a plan of homeless people from Tenessea, taking about it while having a good time with sniffing power, sipping jack Daniel and having a bit of fresh air. I even doubt those people know there is somewhere Paris rather than a remote place like Kurdistan!
If Tennessee spent all it’s budget in this secret mission, the State end up converting 6-16 kurds in 15 years hard work. Remember the our people will remember Angles sticking and screwing a very hot bar in……. straightaway, before pushing conversion bottom (look at my earlier comment to what is hot bar is)
Finally let give people to have choice, if someone convinced to be convertered to any religion, let them do it. It’s not a big problem. Why it’s perfectly acceptable for an atheist or chrischian to be converted to Islam in Copenhagen or Lyon.
Let 4-7 Kurd to covert to chrischianity, it’s not the end of the world or end of our deam of having a country.
Hope that helps
Reply
Ahmed, I agree with you.
If missionaries want to offer salvation to people, why do they not work on their own front doorstep?
Missionaries operate across the Middle East. Even in Sudan there are missionaries parading around as charities. They are currently doing the same in the most populated Muslim country on Earth- Indonesia.
One cannot deny the existence of missionaries. They go back centuries- look at India and West Africa, for example. In Nigeria, the south is Christian and the north is Muslim. The slave trade played a major role in creating this demographic. Under the brutal rule of the French in Algeria, native Algerians were denied basic rights unless they converted to Christianity.
Missionaries can and DO prey on the vulnerable. They do it here in the UK with foreign students from places like China. I’m not saying Chinese people are vulnerable, but if you’re in a foreign country you have no experience of, you need some form of security and reassurance, and so it is easy to be targeted. The Churches would be better off going into city centres on Friday and Saturday nights, speaking to drunks and party-goers.
As I have mentioned in another post, divide and rule is key to establishing dominance an strife in non-Western nations. It’s just that the tactics used are now more subtle and clever, but ultimately the motive remains the same.
Further
Believe me never had alcohol in my life (worried about hot bar), but heard that drinking Jack Daniel make one to have a very nice time and enjoy hallucinations
I am not a missionary, as if that would have any impact at all on the points that I’ve made above.
…and, there is ignorance and extremism in every religion, but I am curious why so many Muslims are so scared of their co-religionists converting away from Islam. If Islam is a superior faith, then why is it so terrible for people to be able to choose for themselves? What would you think of a majority of the Christian or Budhist communities openly endorsing the murder of those from their communities who convert to Islam? What if the majority of their people thought that murdering a Muslim was entirely justified if he was involved in one of the conversion of one of their previous devotees?
…not that you would have any bias in these issues.
friend of Kurdistan ,
In free world you can be what you want . I am sure many enlightened kurds do not mind you being missionary . Freedom in fiefdom .
In Sami’s defense, I don’t think he is bashing missionaries. He basically sayd no hidden agendas behind names.
Dear all
I think Sami mentioned “missionary”. Why friend of Kurdistan become “missionary” out of the blue. Even so, what you guys problem with that.
I have a great sympathy if he/she involved in missionary act because it’s impossible task and goal will never be achieved. Remember we get the flashback of horror stories we’ve all heard on Friday prayers before we “push conversion button”. As i mentioned in my earlier comments “The flashback” of a terrible looking angle with horns in hell sticking and screwing a very hot bar in anyone’s backside who converted from Islam to other religion. But those who converted from other religion to Islam can enjoy a very welcome reception and eternal 5 star hospitality; don’t need to work, just east nice food. I wonder whether they provide 3D-HD TV there? Let me know if you know pls
Kak Ahmed,
please try and understand the point. The point here is not attacking missionaries. Everyone is welcome to promote their own religion, and in public. I don’t like the idea of attacking anyone for switching their religion and beliefs. But what bothers many people is the secretive nature of missionaries and exploitation of the poor and uneducated.
What is the secretive nature of the missionary?, I think is ultimately converting people, do you agree?
Believe me kaki Patriotic, I am not worried whatsoever about the poor and uneducated, because they are the group of the people whom never-ever convert to any other religion. They are the most religious people who prays 5 times day even during the most divastating natural or man made disasters. They heard the horror stories of the hell more than me and you every week without any interruption.
Ramadhan Kareem to everyone.
I cannot believe someone (above) has said that the United Snakes, the Zionist entity (Isra-hell) and the imperialistic Britain are innocent of meddling and corruption in Iraq. That is pure nonsense! That type of mentality only allows said countries continue to carry out their barbaric practices in foreign nations all over the Middle East, Asia and Africa, to the detriment of the native peoples, because somehow some of the natives believe that Westerners epitomise civilisation, freedom and justice. Why? Simply because they are white and wear suits and generate, through their dis-informative mass media entities, the illusion that they are perfect.
I say this because it is annoying to see Kurds and Arabs siding with their own worst enemies. I speak as an individual of joint Kurd and Arab ancestry, but born and raised in the West. I intend to visit Iraq at some point as it is my ancestral homeland, and the people therein have suffered greatly at the hands of people who care for nothing other than how to exploit it for all it is worth.
The Arab Revolt of 1916 was a disaster- it was a clever (and these nations are clever and devious; I am in a position to know, as I have lived in the midst of their propaganda and lies and can separate truth from falsehood thanks to being able to think independently despite the norms of society dictating otherwise) campaign to disunite an entire area. Look at the state the world is in now: look at the borders between nations- do they look natural? It is the legacy of divide and rule. Rumour has it that the Kurds were deprived of their own nation because of the great Saladin. Moreover, it is also rumoured (and let’s face it, it is probably true) that French general Henri Gouraud, following a crackdown on anti-imperialist uprisings in what is now Syria, kicked the grave of Saladin and exclaimed that the Crusaders were back”. Now let’s look at the state the Middle East is in now: disunited, fragmented, sectarian, corrupt and selfish. Yes, ordinary people are suffering, and it is the leaders to blame, but the leaders are only kept in power by the people and foreign influences. It is reckless, therefore, to state that the West and Isra-hell are guilt-free in any of this, or simply blame the Arabs and Kurds for killing one another when divide and rule, instigated by foreign rulers (which continues to this day), as was seen in British India (the stinking legacy of which is visible between India and Pakistan).
I believe that it is possible for all the groups of the Middle East to live and work together. Rather than living in the past and blaming this or that group, perhaps we should stop and think about who the forces behind such a state of affairs are. Nationalism is a Western creation exported abroad in order to execute divide and rule. Ultimately it boils down to creating divisions amongst the various ethnic groups amongst Muslims (Kurds vs Arabs, Berbers vs Arabs, Arabs vs Arabs, Kurds vs Kurds, Berbers vs Berbers, etc etc) across not only the Middle East and North Africa, but across the world. Western, Masonic, Zionist nations know for certain that united Muslims are an impediment to their agendas for corruption, misery and strife across the world, and that is one reason why such corruption exists. Nationalism is forbidden in Islam, and looking at the state the word is in today, it is obvious why it is forbidden.
I believe in no borders across the Middle East. No Iraq, no Syria, no Saudi Arabia, no Kurdistan. The people do not need to live in little entities, ready to kill and attack other little entities, each to their own. That is something Western nations have done because of their own idiocy and failure to get over pathetic notions of superiority and power. To date, the English hate the French, the French hate the English, the English mock the Germans (remember World Wars I and II were all about empires, not good vs evil). Why, therefore, should other countries have these same notions etched into their minds? The longer this goes on, the harder the wounds will be to heal. I cannot blame Kurds for disliking certain amongst the Arabs because of the treatment they have received, and likewise I can understand why Arabs dislike Kurds for siding with enemies of the Arabs. In essence, however, the enemies of the Arabs are enemies of the Kurds, too. This is all about divide and rule. Remove the borders and allow the Kurds to roam freely across their ancestral lands as they did for centuries; allow the non-Kurd regions to also roam freely across the region. Everyone can get along and be united under different banners if they just grow up and both remove the legacy of foreign meddling and that which continues to this day.
As for Barzani and Talabani, they are precisely the tools the West need, just as Iran uses Maliki as a tool. There are two thieves in the north of Iraq and numerous thieves operating from Baghdad. None of them serve for the benefit of the people. I praise the author of this article for his honesty and insight. However, it seems as though both Kurdistan and the rest of Iraq need coups rather than protests.
I pray for all borders to be removed and all people of the Middle East to be united.
Ameen.